All Things to All Women?

Can a podcast please everyone?

Are you a current or aspiring podcast in need of problem solving? Reply to this email with a brief explanation of what you’re experiencing. I’ll reach out to get the context I need.

If you want to remain anonymous, let me know! Otherwise, share how I can best promote your work.

Special thanks to Jessica for reaching out.

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Our podcast (Dear Wallflower) is essentially a podcast “advice column” for women. Here’s the blurb about our show: “Every week co-hosts Keelia Clarkson and Jessica Schroeder read anonymous letters from listeners — inspired by the model of the beloved “Dear Abby” column, listeners write “Dear Wallflower,” and send in their questions about life, relationships, work, purpose, God, mental health, romance, and any other subjects that today’s women are looking for insight and advice on.”

Listen to Dear Wallflower wherever podcasts are available. It’s good!

We seem to have gotten started with a decent following and seem to have a pretty steady listenership, but nearing our 40th episode, we haven’t really ever seen a marked uptick / growth in listeners (even though we have hosted 8 different guests, some with their own sizable following, such as author Aundi Kolber).

We want to reach more listeners primarily so that we can encourage more women / be a source of light, wisdom, encouragement, etc. I’d say a secondary goal for both of us is to expand our reach because we both wish to author books and desire to grow an audience for reaching them with written materials as well as the podcast.

How do you bring new listeners to your podcast (help new listeners find you)?

-Jessica Schroeder

First, a disclaimer: Growing your audience is an age-old problem that only becomes harder to answer over time. And to me, it’s always been a black box. I’ve struggled over the years to figure out what the common factor is for every podcast that works - and more crucially, why certain podcasts I deeply believe in don’t catch on. I’m not sure I’ve come up with a good answer. 

There’s a reason that when I work with clients, I talk about connecting more deeply with your existing audience, rather than building that audience. The former I can guarantee. The latter feels like it’s often left up to chance. 

For more granular advice on podcast promotion, I recommend Podcast Marketing Magic, a fellow Substack newsletter that I find remarkably helpful each week.

With all of that said, there is one macro thing I think you could do that will pave the way for the many micro suggestions you’ll find in newsletters like the one mentioned above.

This is going to sound counterintuitive, but if you want to grow your audience, you’ll need to limit your ideal audience. In your description, as well as on the podcast itself, you describe your audience with basically one word: women. I can imagine the conversations you had around this framing, because I’ve had them myself. You don’t want to overly limit your audience, you don’t want to be too exclusive, and you don’t want to alienate people who might feel like your audience description is too specific to apply to them. 

But the reality is that the lack of a specific audience descriptor leaves people with questions as their first impression. In a moment you want people to exclaim, “That’s for me!” they’re instead asking, “Is this for me?” 

The name of your podcast was intriguing to me, but when I listened to the podcast for clues, I heard a thematic tie-in that implied that ran with the “flowers” theme, rather than the typical connotations of what makes a “wallflower”. When the podcast begins by talking through their “roses and thorns” of the week, the flower imagery, in the absence of anything else, creates the unfortunate feeling that I might be listening to a relatively generic women’s podcast. 

After listening further, I know better. But not everyone will get that far or listen that closely. First impressions matter: the cover art, the description, the name, and the first thing you do on the podcast all work together to let people know that they belong. 

So the question is: who is the ideal audience for your podcast? And the answer to that lies with you. What do you and your co-host have in common? What is driving you? What parts of your host persona do you hope the audience connects with?These are the things that will drive others to you. 

I looked into the Wallflower Journal, which seems tied to the origin of the podcast in some way. And the way they describe themselves does this pretty well: “A place for thoughtful women.” But let’s get even more specific.

You can lean into the Wallflower concept – could this be a podcast for women with deep inner lives that often feel overlooked? Is it for women who are introverts? Deep thinkers? Quiet but not passive? And what would that reality mean for the podcast’s approach? What would it look like to lean into that concept in your opening segment and throughout? Maybe instead of roses and thorns, you could talk about a moment during the week when you felt least heard and most heard? 

You mentioned that you’ve had several guests with platforms but experienced no uptick. After listening to a few episodes, I’ve noticed that your guest episodes are markedly different than your normal ones - primarily that your responses to questions are conversations rather than written out. I bring this up to draw attention to the fact that when people are listening to your podcast for the first time, they’re not getting a representative example of what your podcast is meant to be. 

Having a popular guest on your podcast is an opportunity to show your listeners exactly what you do, and give them a chance to opt in. When you have a guest on, be merciless about keeping the format and vibe the same. Maybe your guest would be open (or even prefer) to write out their own answer to the letter writer for that week. And if not, let them chime in with your co-host while you read your answer. 

This consistency does two things when it comes to guest selection: First, it makes clear who your ideal guests would be. Second, it creates a unique experience for your guests. So many podcast guest spots feel exactly the same. Putting someone in a unique situation and asking them to play along creates a sort of “I’ve gotta hear this” feeling for their fans. 

Back to that initial concern: wouldn’t this approach be too limiting? The reality is that by specifically defining your audience you not only create a sense of belonging for your core listeners, but you also give a clear reason why everyone else might want to listen. I promise you, if some of your listeners aren’t “wallflowers,” they know someone who is, and they’re likely interested in hearing more about their inner life. 

By clarifying where the center of the bullseye is for your audience, and prioritizing them first, your podcast will be more magnetic to the right people. Does it feel risky to limit your audience in that way? Yes. But in the end, it will result in a more meaningful payoff for your listeners, and the right conditions for a growing audience, black box notwithstanding. 

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Listen to Jessica’s podcast, Dear Wallflower wherever you get your podcasts. You can also subscribe to her Substack, Practically Theological.

Thoughts on Jessica’s question? Leave a comment!